I agree all governments lie, especially in the fog of war. However, the Indian lies are so over the top and transparent you wonder what kind of collective delusion they suffer under. I was responding to another comment earlier. I believe the US government also lied about how the F-18s were lost in the Yemen war but at least it acknowledged the losses. Most people won't know the details so they can save some face that way. But the Indian lies are just self deception.
India cutting off water supply and agitating the Balochistan terrorists in Pakistan to declare independence (right after the air combat) are further proof it lost badly on the battlefield and can only resort to such underhanded illegal means to get back at their enemy. Not a sign of strength but of desperation.
"India cutting off water supply ... are further proof it lost badly on the battlefield"
Exactly my point.
Not unlike Israel cutting off all food, & water to deliberately starve to death the Palestinian people.
"I believe the US government also lied about how the F-18s were lost in the Yemen war but at least it acknowledged the losses."
To me, that is proof that the US are the more practiced liars. The most adept at lying hide their lies under pieces of truth.
You should read the lies some US generals & Congress critters spew about the Nato/Russia war in Ukraine. (Larry Johnson seems to specialize in those! 🙂 ). Equally delusional.
lies are easier to tell and swallow when the casualties are suffered by the ukrainians. home-bound body bags will be harder to evade and the ultimate wake up call. for the US political establishment, as long as they have proxies to feed into the meat grinder, they are happy to spew any lies and continue to rob the population through military spending. it's a win win for them.
like hitler said, the bigger the lie, the easier to sell to the population as most people don't tell such outrageous lies themselve and therefore cannot imagine others would do that.
it's not just economic reason why Indians suck up to Israel. They are also Muslim haters. An even deeper reason was given by a famous Indian commentator, Jayant Bhandari. He said the Indian psyche is one that admires bullies and despises underdogs due to their caste system. According to Bhandari, there is no sense of right and wrong for most Indians who live in a dog eat dog society. This is why there are so many gang rapes there. the Indians like to take advantage of others' misery. Grok's media analysis show the fasIndian social media support for Israel was highest outside Israel itself at 5 to 1 ratio. Plenty of YouTube videos that feature Bhandari about the Indian culture and society - strange and disturbing at the same time.
Israel employes workers from Nepal, Vietnam and China as well. Chinese construction workers have been seen in the West Bank (despite the Chinese government forbidding Chinese workers from building in Palestinian areas). Now I don't know if this is just ignorance or some corruption. Hopefully China cracks down on this.
I was contacted by a reader about this as well. If true, this is squarely against Chinese law and the reporter should bring this to the Palestine envoy to China and file a complaint. I also found some reports about the matter a bit strange - there were 3 Chinese companies mentioned in the settlement construction, Fosun (a private property developer from Shanghai whose founder has migrated to the US), Bright Food (which is a privately owned diary company - strange it would be involved), and ChemChina (a large state owned petrochemical firm - I strongly doubt ChemChina would be involved in anything prohibited by the Chinese government as its executives are government employees and could face severe penalties. What motivation would it have to be involved in such controversies?) At the end of the day, some media or social media reports could be either based on poor investigation or on sensational headlines for a certain narrative. I would take those "reports" with a grain of doubt.
I agree all governments lie, especially in the fog of war. However, the Indian lies are so over the top and transparent you wonder what kind of collective delusion they suffer under. the US government also lied about how the F-18s were lost in the Yemen war but at least it acknowledged the losses. But the Indian lies are just self deception. of course, the Indians have learned much of their "statecraft" from their colonial masters - the british rats.
The Indians also claimed to have killed 40 PLA soldiers during the Galwan clashes while supposedly only losing 20 of their own troops. Videos of both the clashes and the aftermath would be interesting.
4 funerals were held by the PLA for its lost soldiers. the India side lost 20. This is not because Chinese soldiers were better Kung Fu masters (the battle was fought without guns as per an agreement by both sides not to arm border patrols). Instead the much bigger Indian losses was because their medical and logistical support was inferior, resulting in preventable deaths from slow evacuation and inadequate emergency care. If a real war breaks out between China and India, in terms of casualty exchange, the Chinese victory will probably be 10 times bigger than the Galwan clash or the 1962 border war during which China completely crushed India.
It is a very good summary of the complex ideology of Hindutva, which was created by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar. In his work, Savarkar defined 4 elements of Hindu identity (religion, race, homeland, language) that only Hindus can possess. Closely related to this is "Hinduization" (saffronization), which is nothing more than the homogenization of Hindu nationalism, the nationalization of Hindu values and principles, ignoring the diversity of non-Hindu (e.g. Muslim, Christian, Sikh) traditions. Hindutva is a manipulative tool.
the caste system embedded in Hindutva is a fundamental feudal concept and a big reason why India will never truly modernize. Most of the Hindu population are in the lower castes - essentially economic (and sometimes actual) slaves of Brahmins. In many ways, it is a primitive pre-modern society even when most people have a Facebook account.
You are absolutely right. The caste system is the most significant organizing structure of Indian society, and is characterized by a constellation of high consolidation/low intersection.
you are dead on. Does anyone think the US withdrew from Yemen because Trump wants peace? the US lost 3 F-18s by public account. the most recent one was the report about aircraft carrier making such a hard turn that a F-18 was thrown off board. that cover story was just laughable. for one, carriers don't do such evasive turns as they have air defense system in their escort ships. for two, if a Houthi drone or missile was able to evade the air defense and got close enough to threaten the carrier, making a hard turn won't save it - carriers turn as fast as a 400-pound fat lady. I am pretty sure that F-18 was shot down. Same for the so called "friendly fire" shotdown of another F-18 by USS Gettsburg. This is just laughable - all aircraft and air defense systems have identification systems to avoid such things. otherwise, how many aircrafts would have been shot down by friendly fires given the thousands of sorties the US navy flew for the Yemen assault? the US lost numerous MQ-9 Reaper drones as well. the US withdrew because it was so scared that a carrier might be sunk and you can't find a cover story for that - attacked by another false flag Muslim suicide bomber?
"because the bandits own the media, and the media tells them that America is the greated country in the world. Well, it sure as hell isn't, at least not for the people who live in. But the media are there cheerleading. The infantilizing of the republic is one of the triumphs of American television" - Gore Vidal. Now, Bharat has caught up with Machiavelli and Hitler - the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it...
as a starter, the May 9 battlefield report to journalists by the Pakistan air force chief of staff was quite detailed and comprehensive - he gave out the shotdown coordinates, Indian aircraft electronic ID, shotdown range, and even a hacked communication between Indian fighter pilots. Most wester media including CNN and the Economist have already reported on the battle outcome and they derided the Indian storyline. Economist ran a cover story titled "india's broadcast media wage war on their audience - when hyper nationalism goes feral", making many of the same points as in my essay.
India has also cut off Pakistan's water supply and instigated an "independence declaration" by the Balochistan terrorists inside Pakistan right after the air combat. Clear proof they want to hurt Pakistan but afraid to engage in direct battles for now.
also plenty of very detailed battlefield analysis by military experts on social media.
Retired Indian military officers claim India badly damaged 11 Pakistani military bases, including the base where the Pakistanis store their nuclear weapons. The inference by these officers is that Chinese air defense systems (and the Russian S400) failed to protect Pakistani military assets. I have yet to find any proof of these assertions. Please post whatever information appears to be reliable. Thanks
any comments from retired indian military officers should automatically be considered lies, period. listen to some of the comments that are so detached from reality that even a lunatic would think twice before saying it. like the retired so called airforce marshall who insisted Chinese pilots cannot operate the Chinese-made jets and missiles and AWACs and radar systems as well as the Pakistan airforce so India has nothing to fear. he has lost all his marbles and some. a complete farce.
I do understand the bias of the Indian sources cited. The question remains: is there any relevant and reliable data available to believe the Pakistanis were unable to defend any of their 11 mil bases allegedly damaged by the Indian air force/missiles ? My belief today is that there is no such credible data, but these are recent events and there may be more information as time passes. I believe this is a serious issue because it bears on the quality of Chinese military equipment and therefore the need of all parties in Asia and in the US to understand China to be a major player in future conflicts.
I don't know any sources. Hard to prove something didn't happen. Easier to prove the other way around with photos of downed planes and burials of soldiers killed in action. If India makes the claim about destruction of Pakistan bases, then they should show ariel or satellite photos or reports from locals, just like Pakistan did with its claims of downed Indian jets. If they don't have that, what is the basis of the claims? I haven't seen any.
This strikes me as no different than the lies told to many citizens by their governments around the world.
How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips are moving.
In the meantime, actions speak louder than words. Which is as true of India as any other government.
India is responding to its loss by cutting water to Pakistan. Iow, the war has just begun. And always, civilians will pay the price.
https://southfront.press/modi-says-no-water-from-india-to-pakistan-as-crisis-boils/
I agree all governments lie, especially in the fog of war. However, the Indian lies are so over the top and transparent you wonder what kind of collective delusion they suffer under. I was responding to another comment earlier. I believe the US government also lied about how the F-18s were lost in the Yemen war but at least it acknowledged the losses. Most people won't know the details so they can save some face that way. But the Indian lies are just self deception.
India cutting off water supply and agitating the Balochistan terrorists in Pakistan to declare independence (right after the air combat) are further proof it lost badly on the battlefield and can only resort to such underhanded illegal means to get back at their enemy. Not a sign of strength but of desperation.
"India cutting off water supply ... are further proof it lost badly on the battlefield"
Exactly my point.
Not unlike Israel cutting off all food, & water to deliberately starve to death the Palestinian people.
"I believe the US government also lied about how the F-18s were lost in the Yemen war but at least it acknowledged the losses."
To me, that is proof that the US are the more practiced liars. The most adept at lying hide their lies under pieces of truth.
You should read the lies some US generals & Congress critters spew about the Nato/Russia war in Ukraine. (Larry Johnson seems to specialize in those! 🙂 ). Equally delusional.
lies are easier to tell and swallow when the casualties are suffered by the ukrainians. home-bound body bags will be harder to evade and the ultimate wake up call. for the US political establishment, as long as they have proxies to feed into the meat grinder, they are happy to spew any lies and continue to rob the population through military spending. it's a win win for them.
like hitler said, the bigger the lie, the easier to sell to the population as most people don't tell such outrageous lies themselve and therefore cannot imagine others would do that.
Exactly.
Even reading (& seeing videos I dare to watch) all the evidence, I struggle to believe the depths the IOF has sunk to.
Even worse, that our "leaders would sink this low, not from desperation or fear, but sheer, unmitigated, overwhelming avarice. Yet there it is.
India also lies to itself about Israel. Apparently because they have so many domestic workers employed there and India likes that.
it's not just economic reason why Indians suck up to Israel. They are also Muslim haters. An even deeper reason was given by a famous Indian commentator, Jayant Bhandari. He said the Indian psyche is one that admires bullies and despises underdogs due to their caste system. According to Bhandari, there is no sense of right and wrong for most Indians who live in a dog eat dog society. This is why there are so many gang rapes there. the Indians like to take advantage of others' misery. Grok's media analysis show the fasIndian social media support for Israel was highest outside Israel itself at 5 to 1 ratio. Plenty of YouTube videos that feature Bhandari about the Indian culture and society - strange and disturbing at the same time.
Israel employes workers from Nepal, Vietnam and China as well. Chinese construction workers have been seen in the West Bank (despite the Chinese government forbidding Chinese workers from building in Palestinian areas). Now I don't know if this is just ignorance or some corruption. Hopefully China cracks down on this.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/china-quietly-aiding-israels-settlement-enterprise-how
I was contacted by a reader about this as well. If true, this is squarely against Chinese law and the reporter should bring this to the Palestine envoy to China and file a complaint. I also found some reports about the matter a bit strange - there were 3 Chinese companies mentioned in the settlement construction, Fosun (a private property developer from Shanghai whose founder has migrated to the US), Bright Food (which is a privately owned diary company - strange it would be involved), and ChemChina (a large state owned petrochemical firm - I strongly doubt ChemChina would be involved in anything prohibited by the Chinese government as its executives are government employees and could face severe penalties. What motivation would it have to be involved in such controversies?) At the end of the day, some media or social media reports could be either based on poor investigation or on sensational headlines for a certain narrative. I would take those "reports" with a grain of doubt.
so how is this different from most other countries; minimizing failure, maximizing what ever success it has; lying. US/EU/UK are the real masters.
I agree all governments lie, especially in the fog of war. However, the Indian lies are so over the top and transparent you wonder what kind of collective delusion they suffer under. the US government also lied about how the F-18s were lost in the Yemen war but at least it acknowledged the losses. But the Indian lies are just self deception. of course, the Indians have learned much of their "statecraft" from their colonial masters - the british rats.
The Indians also claimed to have killed 40 PLA soldiers during the Galwan clashes while supposedly only losing 20 of their own troops. Videos of both the clashes and the aftermath would be interesting.
4 funerals were held by the PLA for its lost soldiers. the India side lost 20. This is not because Chinese soldiers were better Kung Fu masters (the battle was fought without guns as per an agreement by both sides not to arm border patrols). Instead the much bigger Indian losses was because their medical and logistical support was inferior, resulting in preventable deaths from slow evacuation and inadequate emergency care. If a real war breaks out between China and India, in terms of casualty exchange, the Chinese victory will probably be 10 times bigger than the Galwan clash or the 1962 border war during which China completely crushed India.
It is a very good summary of the complex ideology of Hindutva, which was created by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar. In his work, Savarkar defined 4 elements of Hindu identity (religion, race, homeland, language) that only Hindus can possess. Closely related to this is "Hinduization" (saffronization), which is nothing more than the homogenization of Hindu nationalism, the nationalization of Hindu values and principles, ignoring the diversity of non-Hindu (e.g. Muslim, Christian, Sikh) traditions. Hindutva is a manipulative tool.
the caste system embedded in Hindutva is a fundamental feudal concept and a big reason why India will never truly modernize. Most of the Hindu population are in the lower castes - essentially economic (and sometimes actual) slaves of Brahmins. In many ways, it is a primitive pre-modern society even when most people have a Facebook account.
You are absolutely right. The caste system is the most significant organizing structure of Indian society, and is characterized by a constellation of high consolidation/low intersection.
Savage! India's failures brew in a toxic stew of lies. Sadly, the US isn't far behind.
you are dead on. Does anyone think the US withdrew from Yemen because Trump wants peace? the US lost 3 F-18s by public account. the most recent one was the report about aircraft carrier making such a hard turn that a F-18 was thrown off board. that cover story was just laughable. for one, carriers don't do such evasive turns as they have air defense system in their escort ships. for two, if a Houthi drone or missile was able to evade the air defense and got close enough to threaten the carrier, making a hard turn won't save it - carriers turn as fast as a 400-pound fat lady. I am pretty sure that F-18 was shot down. Same for the so called "friendly fire" shotdown of another F-18 by USS Gettsburg. This is just laughable - all aircraft and air defense systems have identification systems to avoid such things. otherwise, how many aircrafts would have been shot down by friendly fires given the thousands of sorties the US navy flew for the Yemen assault? the US lost numerous MQ-9 Reaper drones as well. the US withdrew because it was so scared that a carrier might be sunk and you can't find a cover story for that - attacked by another false flag Muslim suicide bomber?
"because the bandits own the media, and the media tells them that America is the greated country in the world. Well, it sure as hell isn't, at least not for the people who live in. But the media are there cheerleading. The infantilizing of the republic is one of the triumphs of American television" - Gore Vidal. Now, Bharat has caught up with Machiavelli and Hitler - the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it...
Hua, what are some good sources showing the true results of the Indo-Pakistani clash?
as a starter, the May 9 battlefield report to journalists by the Pakistan air force chief of staff was quite detailed and comprehensive - he gave out the shotdown coordinates, Indian aircraft electronic ID, shotdown range, and even a hacked communication between Indian fighter pilots. Most wester media including CNN and the Economist have already reported on the battle outcome and they derided the Indian storyline. Economist ran a cover story titled "india's broadcast media wage war on their audience - when hyper nationalism goes feral", making many of the same points as in my essay.
India has also cut off Pakistan's water supply and instigated an "independence declaration" by the Balochistan terrorists inside Pakistan right after the air combat. Clear proof they want to hurt Pakistan but afraid to engage in direct battles for now.
also plenty of very detailed battlefield analysis by military experts on social media.
Thanks for your reply. I wanted to like your comment, but for some reason it won't let me (javascript:void(0)).
This is democracy. The famous freedom of speech in practice.
Retired Indian military officers claim India badly damaged 11 Pakistani military bases, including the base where the Pakistanis store their nuclear weapons. The inference by these officers is that Chinese air defense systems (and the Russian S400) failed to protect Pakistani military assets. I have yet to find any proof of these assertions. Please post whatever information appears to be reliable. Thanks
any comments from retired indian military officers should automatically be considered lies, period. listen to some of the comments that are so detached from reality that even a lunatic would think twice before saying it. like the retired so called airforce marshall who insisted Chinese pilots cannot operate the Chinese-made jets and missiles and AWACs and radar systems as well as the Pakistan airforce so India has nothing to fear. he has lost all his marbles and some. a complete farce.
I do understand the bias of the Indian sources cited. The question remains: is there any relevant and reliable data available to believe the Pakistanis were unable to defend any of their 11 mil bases allegedly damaged by the Indian air force/missiles ? My belief today is that there is no such credible data, but these are recent events and there may be more information as time passes. I believe this is a serious issue because it bears on the quality of Chinese military equipment and therefore the need of all parties in Asia and in the US to understand China to be a major player in future conflicts.
I don't know any sources. Hard to prove something didn't happen. Easier to prove the other way around with photos of downed planes and burials of soldiers killed in action. If India makes the claim about destruction of Pakistan bases, then they should show ariel or satellite photos or reports from locals, just like Pakistan did with its claims of downed Indian jets. If they don't have that, what is the basis of the claims? I haven't seen any.
❤️👍💯
Just one more example of the lies people are expected to live by.
very true. sadly, many people cannot even tell between truth and lies. anyway, sheeples are easier to govern.